I gotta stand up for a woman I admire and say something about this clip of an Olivia Rodrigo interview with the guys from The New York Time's musical podcast, Popcast.

If you haven’t watched it, see how this lands for you:

A touch of background for my fellow elder-millennials

Olivia Rodrigo is a former Disney Channel kid-star who is now 23 years old and has put out 2 full-length alt-rock and punk-inspired albums. This girl is talented and the world knows it. She’s got more than 2M streams of her popular songs, like “deja vu” and “traitor.” She has 40.5M followers on Instagram. 

Popcast, on the other hand, is hovering around 73,000 followers. So who’s doing whom the favor by being on the show? Does she need their audience exposure? No, as Billie Eilish puts it, “I could eat that girl for lunch.” Yes, Billie had another idea in mind, but the point is, Olivia doesn't need them. 

But does she believe it?

Popcast hosts Jon Caramanica and Joe Coscarelli do have their clout; that can’t be denied. The power dynamics in the room are not to be overlooked. And to her credit, Rodrigo skillfully side-stepped many of their baited questions, especially their prompting for dirt on her relationship with Taylor Swift. 

Those fellas sounded desperate at times—thirsty—as the kids would say. And perhaps that’s where the production is showing its seams. 

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts

The girth of the interview is about Rodrigo’s upcoming album “You Seem Pretty Sad For a Girl So in Love.” And by girth, I mean it’s nearly a 90 minute episode and I’d estimate at least 80% is related to her music and this much-anticipated album. And yet, when it came time to promote the episode on social media, four excerpts were taken, one of which was not music-related, but a ‘random’ question that was pulled from a deck. It didn’t go so well—for anyone. And if we focus on that excerpt as representative of the whole conversation, it went pretty poorly. However, I have listened to the full show, and overall it's an interesting conversation that music lovers could enjoy.

So why would 25% of the episode’s promotional material on Instagram be dedicated to what was approximately two minutes worth of the interview? 

Popcast had full reign to pick the best moments of the show, right? So it comes off as misleading and tacky when they select this clip. How about highlighting her writing process? How about when she talks about writing hundreds of songs to get it down to get it down to a choice selection for the album. 

Have y’all heard the new singles? They are dynamite.

Yes, let’s talk about your childhood

My hackles rose when this video came across my feed. I hadn’t heard the rest of the podcast, had no context for ‘this is a random question thing they do’ or seen any other clips, but that’s often how these promo videos go. They're intended to reel us in, right?

So when Caramanica asks her, “What is the most difficult thing that’s happened to you in your personal life that your career prevented you from dealing with?” Rodrigo registers the magnitude of the question. 

When she gets past her layers of “Oh my god!,” and “I’ve lived a charmed life...” which is a tasteful acknowledgement of her success and privilege, she lands on “I feel really sad that I didn’t really have a childhood.”

Then what happens? Caramanica chortles, locks eyes with co-host Coscarelli, and they both guffaw and act surprised at the delivery of her admission. Then they assure her “that is the answer.” As if they had the answer to the question all along. Sure, from mid-life, looking at a child-entertainer that's a pretty common issue.

Rodrigo was a minor just 5 years ago. And if we get past the US government’s demarcation of an adult, let’s look at the same government's medical definition of adolescence: It’s ages 10-24. She’s in the thick of it. Now more neuroscientists are saying the brain has many eras and adulthood doesn’t start until a person enters their early thirties. 

Given the dynamic, a little grace and maturity could be invoked by the fifty-something-year-old man asking the questions. But that didn’t happen.

And how does Rodrigo respond? “I live one of the most amazing lives, I get to travel the world and have all these incredible experiences, and talk to cool guys like you…” 

She doesn’t go into fight-or-flight or even freeze. She fawns. 

Fight, flight, freeze or fawn

Y’all up on fawning? It’s the other instinctual survival response mental health professionals are talking about. Rodrigo’s a performer and thereby a successful people pleaser, so it makes sense that she would pivot to winning back the audience, especially if the stakes were high.

Interestingly, in the corresponding article, they cut out the fawning moment.

And now, a big-sis note for Olivia:

Girl, I have been there, not successful with music and world-acclaim, but as Miley Cyrus puts it, I too “Used to be young.” I’ve had people in positions of power doubt me. And at age 44, I still do. 

It’s not your fault. You held your own for over an hour of an intense interview with a critic and reporter who have twice your lived experience. You did well. 

This situation gets my goat because it feels like a teachable moment in our culture. As Thao Nguyen gets at with her lyrics of “Know Better Learn Faster,” no one wants their lack of life experience to harm them. And certainly no one wants it used against them.

There will be more people like those guys from Popcast. You’ll think you’re buddies. That they are on your side, but they’ll let you down. That’s on them. They think it’s OK to laugh at your expense and then amplify it across social media, but I don’t. 

I work in PR, and I’m mad for you. Sure, they can ask the questions, legally. ‘This is America, Jack,’ and all that. But I feel like a big sis here (tho I’m old enough to be your mom) when I say, I want you to master those situations so you check your immediate responses and see the other options. I want you to find those moments where you don’t have to take the flack, or try to win that audience. You could decide to let ‘em go. You don’t need them. Choose you, instead. 

You’re making some of my favorite, current music out there. And I see you standing on the shoulders of my generation's heroes—giants like Smashing Pumpkins, Riot Grrrls, The Cure, and acknowledging a lineage of rock musicians that inspire you. Keep wearing those babydoll dresses or whatever you want and making brilliant music. 

The fuller interview is below, and taken as a whole, rather than extracting moments for cheap click-bait, is a good listen.